Early Contradictions of the Mgtow “Manifesto” Surfacing

Comments (22)
  1. CS MGTOW says:

    Great post, I do agree with you hat even if the ‘manifesto’ held up by the trad cons were a legitimate document which birthed the movement, MGTOW has outgrown, it’s good to know that the founders at least had a good grasp of facts including the inability of people to deal with the reality that women became lately intolerable and fixing things is impossible.

  2. Veritech Ace says:

    It is clear that if MGTOW had gone (or will ever go down) down the pro-marriage route, it would have withered on the vine and become as irrelevant as the MRA movement.

    1. Fidelbogen says:

      Puh-leeeze, dude! There is no such thing as “the MRA movement’.

      1. Barbar says:

        Fuck off fidelbogen you burnt out weed smoking clown

        1. Ayam Sirias says:


      2. Fidelbogen,

        you forgot to send your membership dues last month…

        you won’t be getting an invite to next’s month’s wifeswap event…

        all you guys were so happy when JB brought out the strap-on

        (I guarantee this one is safe for work, but the rest aren’t.)

  3. Bravedelta says:

    Hey barbar when is your book coming out?

    1. RED says:

      I can’t wait for all this information and knowledge to be compiled in one book.

  4. shmiggen says:

    I don’t believe Ragnar and Solaris were tradcons. They were libertarians who wanted the government out of their lives, and they said as much. They did make mistakes, particularly their focus on maintaining masculinity in men and femininity in women, but for me the fact that they coined the term, “men going their own way” is what really counts.

    I’ve already argued with Jason Thompson/Peter Wright/Tawil over this, who insists that the phrase ‘going his own sweet way’ is synonymous with ‘men going their own way’. It isn’t. ‘Men going their own way’ is the distinct term which describes the modern, early 21st century marriage strike. Jason Thompson/Peter Wright/Tawil found the phrase ‘going his own sweet way’ from a newspaper article in the early 20th century and it was written in the context of a guy who was merely ‘doing his own thang’. (which doesn’t mean jack shit).

    I would say these guys plus Zed and of course, Rob Fedrz, are the original mgtow. Barbarosssa picked it up and breathed new life into as by 2009 it was indeed dying on the internet. But those guys started it, they invented the word, ‘mgtow’ and now it is Barbarosssa’s movement. In the beginning it was nothing more than disgust with women and disgust with the men’s movement. It has turned into a anaylsis of male psychology, however, and male-female psychosexual dynamics.

  5. tamerlame says:

    Linking this to tradcons every time they mention the MGTOW manifesto.

  6. Peter Wright says:

    Solaris was not a “MGTOW founder” – he knew the guys who did found it though. To my knowledge he is not married, so I’d check that assumption.

    Good bit of sleuthing. The question many would like answered is – who wrote the manifesto – ie, the one about instilling femininity and masculinity?

    Good bit of sleuthing…. a few more details to pin down though.

    Whoever wrote the manifesto (was it Solaris?) I think the line about MGTOW being an evolving consciousness is fitting, and evolve it has.

    1. Rob Fedders says:

      Ragnar wrote it, although he is Scandanavian and not good at english, so it was re-written by ??? Meikeo, or prehaps another.

  7. shmiggen says:

    Solaris has been with a Singapore Chinese woman since 2004 and they got married in 2008. They did not have any children as of 2012 but they may have now.

    The manifesto was written by Ragnar and Meikyo in 2004 and they were the creators of the road sign logo. The confusion is essentially all about nothing. The statement, “to instill masculinity in men” does not mean “to instill one universal definition of masculinity in men”, lol. Ragnar himself said that each man had to define for himself what it means to be a man. People have mistakenly interpreted this manifesto as a tradcon document, it is not. However, it is poorly written. These were just two guys, Ragnar and Meikyo. They weren’t Moses coming down the mountain with the Ten Commandments. I agree that the manifesto is poorly written, but it is in no way a treatise on tradconism. When they wrote, “to instill masculinity in men”, what they mean is, “each man has to decide for himself what it is to be a man”.

  8. Armchair says:

    For perspective, Nice-Guys site was one of the earliest large forums where men gathered. Early to mid 2000s. ( seen here )

    Reading it gives insite into what was knowledge back in the day. Defintely guys knew something big was wrong in relations. Lots of brainstorming, cluebatting expeditions, and debate.

    Reading would help show tbe path of accumulated wisdom to the current day.

  9. Rob Fedders says:

    Fuck, are you guy’s some goddamn butthurt about a definition of the movement you’ve redefined years after its original fucking defintion by its founders?

    Are you guy’s such losers that you can’t just shrug it off, the way the founders did after you hijacked their name and movement?

    Tradcons? Really?

    The Illuminati? Really?

    Nobody understands but you? Really?

    Just shut the fuck and go your own way!

    I did, certainly after reading your bullshit.

    MGTOW = Get a Life of Your Own!

    And, btw, HERE is what the term “Men Going Their Own” is based upon:

    It is based upon the CULTURAL observation that men don’t “herd together” like women do – like how they all herded together to fight against men when they listened to feminist lies and bullshit. ALL women bought into the oppression lies, and the $0.76/dollar lies, and the 1 in 4 rape lies. These were lies, but women banded together LIKE A HERD!

    Men, on the other hand, don’t herd with eachother. Instead, we GO OUR OWN WAY. The young bull who loses to the old bull, does not hang around, but LEAVES THE HERD!

    This is masculinity squared in the natural realm. In other words, it is in MEN’S NATURE to GO THEIR OWN WAY!

    So, instead of feminizing men by demanding that they “herd together” to counter feminism (which is how women do the job, and how fagtards like AVFM want men to behave, as well as the MRM before them), men instead, GO THEIR OWN WAY and start armies of ONE. Therefore, in order to counter feminism, we should not try to MIMICK feminism, but rather, embrace MALE traits, one of which is GOING YOUR OWN WAY!.

    Fuck, take a valium, you dorks.

    Stop making such a big deal of this, you dipshits.

    1. kirea says:

      Has a one man army ever won a war? Of course not. Wars are won by fighting together as a team, not by fighting against each other. Men’s reluctance to “herd together” is exactly what makes men weak and vulnerable. Encouraging that behavior only makes men more weak and vulnerable. This reluctance to “herd together” stems from the dominance instinct, basically the drive to screw over other men to get to the pussy. That is exactly what enables women to control men by playing them out against each other. If we men are to stand any chance in this “gender war”, we have to learn to keep that instinct in check and work together incited of against each other. What is so wrong with mimicking feminism? Feminism does after all work.

    2. barbarossaa says:

      “Fuck, are you guy’s some goddamn butthurt about a definition of the movement you’ve redefined years after its original fucking defintion by its founders?”

      Fuck you and these “founders”. You washed up losers and your little “army of one speech” didn’t stop one of these “founders” from running to me asking for help when some feminists were trolling his blog, (let him deny it so I can but him on blast, he knows who he is)

      “Tradcons? Really?”

      Yes, they’re everywhere in the manosphere and if it wasn’t for the new generation of mgtow calling them out while you old dinosaurs were silent mgtow would still be some stupid little bullshit about “instilling femininity in men and women”

      “The Illuminati? Really?”

      What about it, i don’t believe in the illuminati, judging by the cultural marxism/one world order article on that shitty no ma’am site you’re the one pedaling that nonsense.

      “Just shut the fuck and go your own way!”

      Ironic that you came all the way over here to say that, you’ve shut the fuck up and gone your own way correct? thats what “Real”mgtow do correct? ok, then what in the fuck are you doing here retard?

      ” men instead, GO THEIR OWN WAY and start armies of ONE. Therefore, in order to counter feminism, we should not try to MIMICK feminism, but rather, embrace MALE traits, one of which is GOING YOUR OWN WAY!.”

      Oh do me a favor and please shove that platitude inspired bullshit where the sun don’t shine, I mean seriously, what does that horseshit even mean? sounds like some stupid ass U.S. Army recruitment commercial, you gonna tell us to “accelerate our life” next?

      Get lost you irrelevant clown.

      1. Rob Fedders says:

        Wow, you’re some class act! Aren’t you? Angry at friends, angry at enemies, but best-friends with yourself.

        I’ve certainly made some mistakes as I figured out this path (without a map, as you’ve been handed), but you, sir, are a disrespectful little fucktard – who, if he didn’t like what the term meant, should have created his OWN movement, called, Cunt slapping males bitching about other men who came before us. (CSMBAOMWCBU).

        You have a nice life, asshole.

        1. barbarossaa says:

          “Wow, you’re some class act! Aren’t you? Angry at friends, angry at enemies, but best-friends with yourself.”

          Lol, who is my friend in your scenario? you? You’re a conspiracy nut imbecile who gives females a massive pussy pass to blame what they do on the “globalists” or some other retarded shit, precisely the people i’ve worked hard to distance myself from, you’re better off on infowars.

          “I’ve certainly made some mistakes as I figured out this path (without a map, as you’ve been handed)”

          Let me get this straight you think you handed me a map? Hilarious, go ask spetsnaz, or RBK or stardusk who was one of their main inspirations for mgtow, certainly not you. In fact, most mgtows couldnt even tell me who you are, thats how much you’ve contributed to mgtow… you clowns made an acronym, mgtows like myself actually went about creating what mgtow has become, while you sat around and talked nonsense about “marxism” or looking for submissive women abroad. Now that the hard work is done, you idiots who contributed nothing other then five letters want to act like you had something to do with it…please.

          Go dream up a new conspiracy retard.

    3. Hello Mr. Feeders,

      While I respect that have done good work flinging pooh at feminists, I must respectfully tell you that you ARE NOT the Voice 4 Men! That is my job.

      “Men, on the other hand, don’t herd with eachother.”

      You sir are quite wrong on this. I have been in constant contact with Davis Aurini and other deep thinkers of the manosphere. There is a renaissance for men, no longer do we embrace the “tough guy” roles of John Wayne. I grant that in this one instance, feminists were 100% right. We must drop toxic masculinity and embrace hugging each other by the campfire as we sing Kum-buy-ay. Look at how successfully men have congregated at the NPI convention. Was Roosh booed for being a camel-jockey? Was Matt Forney booed for being a fat-ass? Look at how Jack Donovan could lead a room of men. Quite like Alexander The Great.

      We need women like Judgy Bitch, Typhone Blue and Girl Writes What to be our moral compass. And we need new-aged masculine men like Dean Esmay and Richard Spencer to teach us not to be afraid of hugging other men but to be afraid of people of other races. You, sir are a troglydite from an age passed and the new men’s rights will sail on without you. Now you are likely unwares of the real oppression men face. It is not a high suicide rate or a lack of social support. It is the lack of access to bidets in men’s restrooms. When your mangina is unclean, everything just falls apart. We must sanction the state to provide us with these wonderful devices. Now stop playing with your micropenis and send me a donation. Hillary 2016!

  10. Martin says:

    I posted a link to this page on Quora as an answer to the question about who founded MGTOW

  11. Mick says:

    The earliest I remember seeing the manifesto and logo was mid 2005 on Niceguys website, now called (Niceguys MGTOW forum). If you want to find out the exact date, simply message Solaris on the forum. He is still active.

    Read the “best short posts” and “best long posts” from back in the day (2005 onward) to understand how MGTOW thought developed and evolved.

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