How Can We Engage in MGTOW Activism without Emulating the MRM.

Comments (36)
  1. Golden Eagle-owl says:

    Based on a question I made during a Niko Chowski/Messenger Rising hangout, I suppose MGTOW could look into private initiatives like, for instance, mentoring programs for young men and boys especially when they lack a paternal figure in their lives, or even a sort of underground network of assistance, a MGTOW directory according to Messenger Rising, that would provide the contacts of lawyers, doctors, therapists, etc., to men in need.

    1. CS MGTOW says:

      Mentoring programs would be an excellent step. These days i would be a little worried however as any interest taken in a young person is always viewed with deep suspicion, its sad as I see many young boys in my neighbourhood who’s fathers have essentially abandoned them (to work a should destroying 70 hour work week) and they are making easily corrected life mistakes, if I try to inform them of the benefits of not settling down, how to pick a profession etc their parents will tell me to mind my own business, its a sad state of affairs.

      1. Golden Eagle-owl says:

        Yeah it’s tough to immediately go “balls deep” in MGTOW philosophy with outsiders, I would say that we could just start by being a positive role-model, y’ know, lead by example. Let them see our lives firsthand and then they’ll realize: “Well those guys seem to be doing quite well, they’re happy and stressfree. I want some of that too.”
        By being positive role-models that care about, and help other men, we’ll also help to dispel society’s misconceptions about masculinity, by showing one individual at a time that men aren’t monsters, or pedos, or whatever.

      2. Golden Eagle-owl says:

        I think it’s important to highlight this:

        The MRM tries to change the perception of the entire society. Obviously women don’t give two fucks about it, because of their own self-interest. So that’s a waste of time.

        MGTOW, as I see it, focuses on changing the perception of individuals, individuals willing to expand their mind, and I think that this course is far more effective in the long run.

        1. FingerSmoke says:

          “The MRM tries to change the perception of the entire society. Obviously women don’t give two fucks about it, because of their own self-interest. So that’s a waste of time.”

          I wouldn’t call it a waste of time; the only reason i was put on to MGTOW is because of the MRM. Say what you want about them, but they get the word out, they highlight feminist hypocrisy and challenge misandric narratives, the MRM gave me the red pill, and i will be forever grateful for that.

          Will they achieve their goals? I don’t think so, men asking for a better deal and getting ignored and/or shamed for it isn’t exactly a new thing, but imo if there was ever a time for it to be possible, it’s now.

          1. Golden Eagle-owl says:

            Forgive me if I don’t believe that the general society cares about men or as any mercy in store for us. The MRM can raise all the awareness they want, and argue with feminists until the end of days, but that won’t (and so far it didn’t) bring solid change, because our gynocentric societies have a level of empathy for women that is not extended to us.

            Now, do I think that the MRM was necessary to manosphere? Yes, absolutely. But I think it’s time to discard the strategies that didn’t work, in favor of other strategies. At the end of the day, it’s all about the outcome.

      3. Astrokid NJ says:

        CS MGTOW,
        I left a comment at the top-level (ie non-nested) for you.
        Its fairly evident that comments left at the top level are directed at the author of the article, but for some reason Barb thinks I should specifically address you. So I am letting you know that its directed at you.

  2. Golden Eagle-owl says:

    However, if we seek to push changes in law, we would need the support of the majority of men in the first place, only then could we come to the negotiating table and get everything we want, just by waving the threat of economic collapse. We need to stand in a position of power in order to get shit changed, and it isn’t by appealing to empathy, like the MRM did, that the wheels are going to turn.
    Since it is uncertain if whether critical mass may be reached or not, I would put my chips on my first suggestion.

  3. Ty says:

    What has been happening in the past few years in the MGTOW community has been huge for males that have been suffering, or don’t quite know where the most optimal direction is. As far as what more can be done, the best thing would be to talk to other males that are willing to listen. If the person or people are willing to listen, then you can keep going deeper, show them examples of happiness by going your own way, and give them other excerpts from various content producers. If the person or people that you are talking to aren’t getting the message or are outright against it, then you are wasting your time talking to them; most people have to learn the hard way before they get on the right path.

    Other ideas would be to donate money to the scientists that are producing the male pill. For those men that still engage in sexual activity, it will be a revolution, just like the female pill was, except men more than likely have the foresight to use this pill and not get trapped. Also, what the Mayor of Mgtown is doing with the homeless outreach is great. I think having places where males that have been “beaten down” (either through homelessness, depression, or a string of bad luck) can go to and build themselves and their confidence back up (either through teaching them valuable life skills, applicable skills that can make them money) would be a huge boon… you just can’t publicly label it a male center, for obvious reasons.

    I should also mention (though this is not news to anyone here) that females are mostly a lost cause as far explaining this to them, even more than blue pill men that will deny or shame this philosophy.

  4. Astrokid NJ says:

    The Men’s Rights Movement (MRM) ultimately failed for a number of reasons that the currently much derided field of study known as Evolutionary Psychology would have pointed out in a heartbeat if the founders of the movement had only thought to consult it.

    since the MRM has been at work for at least 50+ years, how could the “founders” consult Evolutionary Psychology which started flourishing only in the last 1-2 decades? In its nascent form as sociobiology (as founded by E.O.Wilson) back in the 70s, it was nowhere near as developed. And sociobiology most certainly did not investigate sex-differences back then.
    And today, many MRAs like me are on-board with EP, while many arent. just like in an group.

    The MRM essentially assumed that women think and respond to stimuli like men, in that women also feel a sense of shame if they benefit from the abuse of others, that women have honor and a sense of justice…
    if only the MRM gave women the facts that women and ultimately society would care, with this change of hearts & minds then legal change would follow.

    If the MRM had that assumption, then why would Warren Farrell have come up with the doctrine of male disposability? How did he conclude that men are disposable, and nobody seems to care.. neither women, nor other men?
    RIchard Doyle, an MRA from the 70s wrote this

    Disputes over means to the same end have rendered activists largely ineffective and permitted common enemies to grind out destruction with pitifully little opposition. Consequently, the “movement” hasn’t moved much in over 30 years. Indeed, it has deteriorated since the formation of MEN International. Part of the reason is fierce opposition from entrenched government officials (judges, legislators, etc.) money-grubbing lawyers, feminists and assorted other factions. But a more damaging cause of failure to achieve justice springs from within. As Pogo famously said, “We have met the enemy, and he is us.” Few are immune to the aforementioned problems, be they newcomers, officials, blogmeisters, writers, whatever.

    Doyle et all knew there were tremendous monetary benefits to State in the status-quo. How do you come up with the simplistic notion that “MRM believes that facts will change hearts”?
    Just like any tribalist, you want to portray your tribe as being the best.

    Forming male focused charities, serving on juries in criminal cases to help acquit men (a wonderful suggestion by the Mayor of Mgtown), helping homeless men..

    And the $$ to do all this comes from where? And how does your other goal of consciousness-raising differ from what others have already been doing (not just the MRM.. but also the Manosphere). Even non-Manosphere anti-feminists like Thunderf00t, AmazingAtheist has subscriber-base 100-times larger than any MGTOW.

    1. barbarossaa says:

      why arent you directing this commentary to the author of the article who has commented only a few comments above you, thats how it works here, you have something to say to CS MGTOW, say it directly to him please.

    2. random dude mgtow says:

      Dude barbar, that astrokid guy is an avfm lackey. I believe his main goal is to go around trying to police mgtow sites bitching and whining. I’d tell him to go fuck off if I were you, I love this site and I don’t want to see avfm come in and ruin it by trolling like they do everything else.

      1. Astrokid NJ says:

        Hey random-mgtow-dude,
        I cut my MGTOW-teeth back at RobFedrz’s NOMAAM site several years ago.
        Although I am also an MRA, I am no “avfm-lackey”. I was a Moderator there for a short while, and I quit due to disagreements over moderation-policy and practices. I rarely read or comment there these days.

        Dont worry about “ruining things for you”. You will rarely find me commenting at MGTOW sites. While I disgree on several things, I still respect Barb and Stardusk and often listen to what they have to say, so I am here.

    3. CS MGTOW says:

      Dear Astrokid NJ, thanks, you raise some excellent points which I would like to respond to. Firstly I apologise, I’m not sure of how to format my responses in the style you did so I will use a bullet point method.

      1. According to Wikipedia, The history of evolutionary psychology began with Charles Darwin, who proposed that humans have social instincts that evolved by natural selection. an understanding of these social instincts (such as the desire to protect females at all costs) dissuaded myself and perhaps many other MGTOW from donning the MRA cloak, their obstacles against the MRM is simply too large. Is it ones responsibility to attempt to understand the environment before starting an endeavour? I believe so.
      2. Im glad you brought this up, Warren Farrell is a person I admire greatly, I tend to ignore what people say and focus on what they do, I’m assuming that you are an MRA, you may state a belief that women and men do have key differences (stemming from their biology), these differences lead to male disposability, and this is where we split intellectually you and I, I’m going to assume you believe that rhetoric can help individuals (specially females) override their biological drivers. I have no such belief, thats why I go my own way. One need only look at the goals and tactics of the MRA to understand where their philosophical underpinnings, yes Dr Farrell wrote a great book, perhaps the MRM should explore the origins of disposability he so correctly used his book to explore.
      3. In response to your quote “Disputes over means to the same end have rendered activists largely ineffective and permitted common ……” I am not the originator of these words, so I will refrain from commenting on them.
      4. I personally donate to worthwhile causes, like other men. I gave money to help fund the male pill and to help homeless men, so did many other men. I will not however fund a perpetual PR campaign that is the MRM.

      1. Astrokid NJ says:

        Ah .. I see you got to my comment.
        Thanks for the response.
        I have no problem if you dont like the MRM or its tactics or that its failed.. I am just trying to argue with the facts presented.

        1) Even if Darwin proposed that “humans have social instincts that evolved by natural selection”, thats not good enough. EvoPsych started as sociobiology with E.O Wilson in the 70s. And that too, he addressed humans only in the last chapter (he presumably was scared of the backlash, and there indeed was a huge backlash).
        You cant seriously say that “founders fucked up by not studying evopsych.
        Movements start by noticing injustice.
        By your logic, you could argue that people who fought against communism
        “From each according to their ability, to each according to their need” should have studied EvoPsych too. After all, Darwin surely demonstrated that evolution works on individuals, and individuals are driven by self-interest in survival and reproduction.

        To be clear, I myself am unhappy that certain MRAs diss EvoPsych, and I actually had a heated argument with Dean Esmay on AVFM comments. WHat I am arguing against.. is your claim that “MRAs thought that stating facts will be enough”.
        All movements actually start with that assumption.. that you can point to injustices.. and people will listen. Thats because people are naive by default, and worldly experience sets them right.
        I was part of the “New Atheist” movement, and they also started that way. They keep touting “reason” and “rationality” even to this day.
        In fact, psychologist Jonathan Haidt has lecture called “The Rationalist Delusion in Moral psychology” where he demonstrates that people make moral decicions less by rationality, and lot more on emotional experiences.

        2) Re: perhaps the MRM should explore the origins of disposability he so correctly used his book to explore
        For arguments sake, assume it is done.
        What next? What is the plan of action.
        You argue that your activism is targeted at men. That you want to effect cultural change by raising men’s consciousness and telling them to not marry.
        In what way is it different from what the MRM is already doing?

        3) Even if you and I dont agree, lets say for argument sake that you are right, and your activism works.
        How do we measure your success? Why dont you set your targets also, and ballpark-quantify them. Lets come back N years later and see if you have succeeded, and that success is indeed due to your brand of activism and not the MRMs.

        1. CS MGTOW says:

          Astrokid NJ, many thanks, this is the final time I will respond, like yourself, I’m extremely busy.

          1. I did not at any time suggest that the founders of the MRM fucked by by not studying Evo Psych, you said this! I pointed out that the MRM failed as a movement primarily because of its inability to correctly identify human motivations and act accordingly. I do NOT believe that the funders studying evo psych would have made a single bit of difference to the MRM, even if they known that laws could not be changed, their behaviour today tells me louder than words, that they do not base their actions on evidence, its based on hope, they wished the world were different, unfortunately the world was not and their movement died. Im unsure of the merits of you expanding my very limited comment about the MRM to communism. I also do not fully understand what you mean by the sentence ‘By your logic, you could argue that people who fought against communism “From each according to their ability, to each according to their need” should have studied EvoPsych too. After all, Darwin surely demonstrated that evolution works on individuals, and individuals are driven by self-interest in survival and reproduction.’

          I do agree that a common theme in the beginning of revolution/movements is naiveté, however growing past this initial ignorance is a positive thing, would you agree?

          2. After understand that males are disposable, I chose to go my own way. I don’t want to be a walking equivalent of a coffee machine.
          In response to your comment about how MGTOW differs from the MRM, Astrokid NJ is this a real question? The MRM was and is a traditionalist vehicle!

          3. Measuring success, whatever works for you, I mean this, if charts and diagrams are your thing then go for it. Mayor of MGTOW handing our blankets counts as success to me, men will sleep warmer that tonight because of it. Persuading a friend not to marry, that counts as success to me, he will live a happier life.

          I will not respond again, its late at night over here and I’m off to bed!

  5. Spider says:

    Man this is a trip. Why are we criticizing each other, makes no sense. MRA and MGTOW should not be at each others throat. The groups are different with one goal, to improve the lives of men. The MRA wants to improve our lives through the legal system. MGTOW wants to improve our lives through personal growth and knowledge. Both ways are needed, because if the MRA succeeds in getting everything it wants and men are still letting women control our lives, we are still screwed. On the other hand if MGTOW succeeds in improving men on a personal level and the laws don’t change, the world is headed for disaster. MGTOWs should be rooting for the success of the MRA, and MRA should be rooting for the success of MGTOW, whether you are in one group or both. With each success of both groups, we get better and we get stronger.

    1. I think you have one flawed presumption-that men are a group that care for each other-truth is many men are diametrically opposed to one another. Let’s not make the mistake that feminist’s make-that men have each other’s back-that is an old lie-Dolce et Decorum Est. There is no such thing as male privilege. M(h)RA’s are feminist’s with penises. I am a realist and out for myself, let’s let go of the cry by the fire and hug each other Dean Esmay shit while he proclaims that one is less of a man for refusing the leadershit of bully boi Elam.

    2. Fidelbogen says:

      Oh come off it — there is no such thing as “the MRA”.

      WTF is “the MRA”?

      The non-feminist sector is a complex social ecology, and there is no monolithic blob called “the MRA” (MRM). It’s all in your head. It’s a figment of your imagination. A spook. A phantom.

      Beiieve it or not, there truly IS life beyond the MGTOW club. Shitloads of it. You might want to find out what ‘s really happening out there in the world, although I realize that it’s a chore to keep up with it sometimes. But I guarantee the benefits are worth the effort.

  6. two ways to help men…

    work to reform drug laws/end the war on drugs-how many men are rotting in prison on trumped up charges? As we have seen, public opinion changed and gay marriage was legalized. Public opinion is changing, just look at all the states legalizing pot.

    end selective service. Don’t talk about male disposability, no one wants to hear that. Don’t bring up equality and womyn should serve too. No one especially wants to hear about that double standard. If anything, mention the Robert Heinlen concept that a volunteer army is stronger and more motivated than a conscript army-many military men carry this opinion and you’ll look pro-murrika…

    don’t mention feminism or fucking their shit up ™ like some loudmouth ego case who has no desire to help low status men…

    also-refuse military service or working in law enforcement…

    don’t expect any help from libertarians, liberals or womyn–but if you don’t say anything questioning feminism or female supremacy publicly, then yes, I believe that it will be possible to do things to improve the lot for low status men. Also realize high status men aren’t your friends-you are only canon fodder for them…

    1. Mike says:

      I completely agree.

      Also get involved in intactivism. That movement is growing.

  7. Out-sid-er says:

    Feminism is not the only road block to changing laws. I’m not saying this is a conspiracy, but it’s also the judges, lawyers, etc, who benefit from the laws the way they are. Its like Jto and barbar said, people work to protect their own interests. They will fight change in every way they can.

  8. Rob says:

    But there has indeed been some legal change – just not as fast as you would like. This war will not be a blitzkrieg war. Instead, its going to be a slow grinding battle more like WWI.
    An example of the slow legal change is paternity fraud. In the US, it used to be impossible for a husband with a backstabbing wife to escape paternity fraud. He would legally be required to raise his wife’s sleazeball boyfriend’s child. Today, I know of 10 states that allow a husband to escape paternity fraud at any time. – DESPITE FEMINIST OPPOSITION TO PATERNITY REFORM. Feminist are fighting paternity reform legislation but they are slowly being beaten. It takes time.

  9. HaHa? says:

    Hearts and Minds people, hearts and minds.
    Any political activism will fail if people do not support or believe in the cause and any law is useless if no one implement it.

    There will always be people who opposes MGTOW either because they are so invested in gynocentrism or because they gain power by associating with females and using their power by proxy, namely Obama.
    Thus it is ever pointless to fight their lies, denial, and hypocrisy on their terms. Spreading MGTOW wisdom these days is a social risk so here is how I see that we can be successful.
    1/ Approach divorced men. A good amount of people must be in a certain emotional state before they can accept facts. That is why some truths are often spoken in jest. Divorced men who sees the something first hand will be ever more likely to accept what MGTOW got to say. With divorce rate at 50% or more, we will have plenty of people to talk to.
    2/ Be the avatar of success/happiness. Seeing is believing and people like Vention are good icons. Be calm in demeanor about women, even if they piss you off, not only for your own good, spiritually and physically, but also so that people will listen to you. People who do not understands are often repulsed by the unknown.
    3/ The one on one. Especially these days where people are so focused on “niceness” and PC as the only acceptable form of social interaction, especially in a group, talking one on one is often the only way to get thoughts on the matter. Group social interaction is a place where MGTOW ideas goes to be shunned and shamed especially by female thought police.

  10. anotherbastard says:

    Fantastic article, CS MGTOW :) This is one of the more relevant things to be talked about. I understand that developing ideas will help men directly, but this will do that and also generate momentum!!! I’m so excited.
    It’s just a shame there are so many great articles here, but it takes me a few weeks to steal a chance to read them.

    1. CS MGTOW says:

      thanks for the kind words brother. I’m preparing a response to Fidelbogen’s comments.

  11. Fidelbogen says:

    The problem is that the “MRM” spoken of in this article, is not actually a thing. It is a construct (with X amount of peer consensus) that exists almost entirely in the author’s head. And most of it is wildly askew from the complex landscape existing in reality.

    In short, it is a “map”. . . and very little more. And as we all know, the map is not the territory.

    The so-called “MRM” has not “failed”. Rather, the author has made false assumptions about what this “MRM” thing is in the first place, and then made further assumptions about WHAT this fabricated mental spook is trying to accomplish, and finally, HOW it is trying to accomplish it. So in the end it’s like saying that an imaginary screwdriver has “failed” at being a torque wrench or a gear puller.

    Nothing to see here folks. Nothing but a clusterfuck of false assumptions…… and I haven’t got the patience to parse through it.

    The “MRM” which the writer bangs on about, is no more than a straw dummy, made with material gathered from diverse locations and bundled together into a certain shape. I would summarize it as a linguistic plot device, which gives followers a certain conversational center of gravity which they can cluster around.

    The “MRM” is not a thing any more than “MGTOW” is a thing. The big bad real world is complicated and messy, and continually changing, but if erecting a set of artificial categories gives us a foundation of communal reinforcement and self-appointed authority, I guess that works out pretty good in the long run. . . eh?

    Nevertheless, I repeat: There is NO SUCH THING as the “MRM”. It’s all in your head.

    BTW, “Big Red” never chased Dan Perrins down the street, as anybody who watches the video can plainly see. What really happened is that Big Red made an ass of herself while Dannyboy stood there quietly with a wooden face and kept his cool all the while. The incident was video captured, went viral, and feminism’s stock took a plunge in the eyes of the world.

    If you get basic information as wildly wrong as the author of this article does in the cited example, you must expect people to be skeptical about your judgment on any subject at all — especially if it’s a political or philosophical subject.

    At any rate, Big Red was a gift that keeps on giving. She now effectively personifies “feminism” in the eyes of many people. Chalk up a victory on the propaganda front.
    Overall, the war is moving forward. . . .

    1. CS MGTOW says:

      Fidelbogen, you have engaged in a number of intellectual dishonesties. Firstly, kindly search using google keywords ‘MRM’ and the name of the most prominent men’s rights group in the USA and you will immediately find a number of articles, one of which is titled ‘An Introduction to the Men’s Rights Movement’ on this group’s website. Secondly, as far as I understand this MRM organisation, has a physical office, paid staff members, volunteers, moderators, donors, a website and have launched a meeting to promote their agenda. Yet you describe this as a figment of my imagination.

      Gentlemen, the MRM does exist, there are MRA’s and the earth does indeed orbit the sun.

      Secondly, you state that the MRM has not failed, so what is it Fidelbogen, does the MRM not exist or has it succeeded?

      The supposed ‘gift’ that Big Red gave the MRM, the very same MRM you claim does not exist, has it helped change any laws? How many fathers now have greater time with their children as a result of the video going viral? Besides generating youtube likes how has this helped men?

      1. If you go over to Fiddelboggen’s Bullshit website:

        It links to something he calls the Map of Reality–

        this guy lies like a male feminist….

        and his insults are strikingly similar-lonely heart (micro penis) boy’s club in reference to men who reject the leadershit of the Elam/Esmay loser brigade.

        When you call a tradcon a tradcon (Judgy Bitch)-these M(h)RA’s or whatever they decide to call themselves this minute cry “misogynist” ™ just as loudly as Mandy Marcotte. The constant rebranding is similar to Blackwater relabelling themselves XE-“uh, no it was Blackwater that murdered little kids for oil, we are XE-true fucking patriots….”

        at least some feminist’s have the honesty to state they hate low status men. I’m really sick of being shit on by “men” like Roosh, Jack Donovan, Elam and Fidelboggen…. Now Fiddle-Booger go back to AVfM and don’t let the door hit you ass on the way out. (See I am also capable of rhetorical discipline.)

  12. Rhetorical discipline, mutherfuckers, rhetorical discipline—kick out the jams, mutherfuckers

    –dope, guns and fucking in the street–

    In manosphere, they all love Judgy Bitch boo,boo, boo

    We all did what we could do

    Roosh at AVfM, does not bother me,

    Does your Conscience bother you?

    Now Tell the truth…

    We all heard Fidel sing about GYOW

    We all heard ol Boggen put us down

    Well I hope Fiddelboggen will remember

    MGTOW don’t need him around, anyhow

  13. That Corvid says:

    I have a hypothesis that the knowledge that the MGTOW community has gained regarding female nature and how society, men and women interact and relate, I suspect, is nothing new (but buttressed by evolutionary psychology, which is relatively new). I think this knowledge has been around for centuries. I think it was largely communicated informally between men, for example, when sons observed their fathers interact with their mothers. Further, when men congregated together in the past, without the presence of women, they probably had frank conversations about their relationships with women. In this way, female nature was likely understood intuitively. Men knew what was expected of them, they knew there were different sets of rules for men and women, and they acted accordingly to protect their interests. (I’ll admit right now this is somewhat speculation on my part).

    The transmission of this knowledge was halted in the 20th century by several elements in our society. For one, by feminist ideology which basically states that all gender and family roles and dynamics are societal constructs, and so you need only look back to the 1950s to understand the origins of these dynamics. This is just a blatant lie, but does have effect of preventing people from thinking about the origins of our behaviors. Two, that women are the perfect goddesses and nothing can be said which detracts from that assumption, including frank discussion between men about the true nature of women. Three, single parent homes meant that either a child had no father present in their lives, or did not have consistent regular contact with his/her father. Further, fatherhood has been denigrated by feminists to the point where it is seen as harmful and toxic, and so children may learn to despise their fathers. This would lead them to reject what they could have learned from their fathers, or for those without a father figure, to never have access to such knowledge in the first place.

    MGTOW, to me, is a group of men rediscovering this knowledge, often the hard way, by a bad divorce, loss of child custody, or plain old abuse and harm suffered at the hands of a woman. The best advocacy we can do is to preserve this knowledge. We should make a lasting record of it, and do it in a way that makes it accessible to men and boys, while insuring that society cannot squelch it or almost eliminate it as has happened in the past. How we do that, I don’t know for sure.

    YouTube videos, this blog and books are doing a great job of getting the message out. How do we make it even more resilient and permanent? I’m only partly kidding when I say perhaps its time to write epic poems about Stardusk, BarBar and Spetsnaz and commit them to memory, sharing them orally. It seems a bit much, but I’m concerned that a societal crackdown on MGTOW could lead to the deletion of these resources.

  14. Giddens says:

    Great article!

    Men’s rights is, in my limited experience, a very effective tool in reaching out to blue pill men. We know for sure that a lot of people found MGTOW through the MRM or with the help of it – and I bet MRM projects (like the homepage Real Sexism) introduces a lot of men to the red pill and lay the groundwork for a MGTOW mindset.

    I’ll be using men’s rights a lot in my physical activism the upcoming months, but the goal is ultimately to give men the red pill and help them adopt a MGTOW mindset – not to engage with feminists.

  15. KARMA MRA MGTOW says:

    I think ALL MGTOW should read this as a warning.

    This is what happened to AVFM –

    I warned Paul that this would happen…

    We need male only spaces in MGTOW.

  16. Jessire Nagy says:

    ♂ Answer to the title: just keep doing what we’ve been doing, Spread the message, & the movement will expand. ¶ I used to have an electronic music project, & to promote my project I made a zine (a term for amteur magazine.) I sold a small amount & left most of them for free in local record stores, & my old Myspace profile incrementally indicated a higher listener count. Independent music shops like having artists present free stuff becuase it gives the prospect of more buyers. Although I no longer bother with such hipster-faggotry, you can learn a thing or 2 by these idiots. It would be nice if m.g.t.o.w. could some how make a periodical, pamphlet, or newspaper, if someone has the energy that is. Takes a lot from you. ♂

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