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  1. Balthazar Rodriguez says:

    “As a worldwide movement though, it causes some problems.”
    Nah. Vast numbers of men simply won’t take to MGTOW. Once a set percentage of the make population is no longer having interactions with women, it opens up doors for the men left behind that never even existed before. At some point, diminishing returns WILL kick in and the non-MGTOW men who were not even considered to be acceptable providers by women before will find themselves suddenly drowning in pussy. And they’ll be all too happy to dive right in.

    1. Darth Sin says:

      Not entirely true, given the situation in nations like Japan. Perhaps Japan is an extreme case, perhaps it is not.

      The most important thing with MGTOW is that men have made the first revolutionary move in this perpetual war of the sexes.

      The real question is how will women react to MGTOW ? Will they behave like the typical twats that they are with ineffectual ridicule or shaming ? Or will they woman up, put their big girl panties on, start keeping their desires in check and start being more rational ? Will they acquiesce to the law reforms that MRAs have been wanting for ages now ? Or will they double down on their gynocentric bullshit ?

      MGTOWs have made their move. The ball is in women’s court now. It remains to be seen how they will play it.

      1. Jimmy says:

        I think mgtow overestimate their contribution to social changes and attribute women’s changing preferences to their own to try an make it as if they have power when they have very little.

        Non traditional/non-religious women don’t want long term relationships/marriage UNLESS it’s too a rich good looking guy. So they are basically rejecting men more harshly than usually because they don’t need men for money. That’s what most of what you are seeing actually is.

        IVF/Sperm donor therapy is becoming common here in the UK. Men are not necessary for reproduction and are being replaced by technology. Also, women will prefer to chose sperm in the future as they can choose for height/intelligence etc. more positive traits.

        More government support for childcare will be instituted by advanced economies as is already happening, so actual genetic “fathers” aren’t really that important. In the future the state will probably provide full childcare for single women. or just pay nannies to raise children.

        Mgtow’s continually try and make out as if they have some power play when they have no power whatsoever in the current paradigm. The facts such as increasing welfare for mothers/increasing women rejecting marriage /increasing IVF/gene therapy is evidence that mgtow’s are not the ones holding the cards, it’s women.

        1. Darth Sin says:

          White Knight Alert.

          1. joe says:

            If his facts are right then he is not a white knight. Not everything supports mgtow narrative. Follow the truth wherever it leads. That’s real mgtow.

        2. gary says:

          well, theres more happening on the gameboard than mgtow versus gynoism, plenty of other social forces that seem to add up to a perfect storm of collapse.

          mgtows are only one factor, but a key factor;

          guys who opt out are the men most likely to be prepared for what follows.

          if Syria results in WW3, if a feminist mouth farts, will anybody listen?

      2. Cary Harris says:

        Darth Sin, I self define as GMOW, and it doesn’t matter how women react to MGTOW. That implies men are GTOW to get a reaction from women when that is not at all the case. Men are going their own way for self evident reasons. Your comment equates MRAs with MGTOW. It is the MRAs that are looking for some accommodation from the gynocracy. MGTOW = no f_cks given.

    2. That would seem to be the case on first glance…

      however, you will see womyn more ruthlessly competing for “desirable” men. In fact aren’t there all those “where are all the good men” articles complaining that college girls can’t find quality BF’s and are “reduced” to one night stands. Don’t we hear of many virgin college men even though this is theoretically the dream environment for a single male?

    3. Aaron Peters says:

      Women would rather have the guy with resources who doesn’t beg for pussy though. If that happen they would probably give up themselves like in Japan.

  2. Darth Sin says:

    The only tangible solution that can fix things is if marriage and child rearing are revamped to keep up with modernity.

    The first step is in making marriage into a business partnership between 2 or more consenting adults instead of some lovey dovey shite that the state and courts interfere. So that means the state no longer issues any marriage permit but instead people who get married draw up a contract that they agree upon and sign it. If there is a falling out, then what needs to be done will be outlined in that said contract.

    This is then followed by legalization of mandatory paternity tests and removal of alimony as well as introduction of legal paternal surrender.

    GWW is partially right in what she says. The system has worked thus far. However, it must be tweaked to suit modern times and not be left to whims of idiotic twats.

    With regards to children, there should be more support for single fathers since countless research has shown that it is single mothers who cause problems, not single fathers. The state also should not support unplanned teen pregnancies and teen moms. Fuck them.

    Btw, I am a MGTOW, not an MRA. However, you requested tangible solutions. These are the ones i have got. Good luck with implementing them though.

    1. joe says:

      “The first step is in making marriage into a business partnership between 2 or more consenting adults instead of some lovey dovey shite that the state and courts interfere. So that means the state no longer issues any marriage permit but instead people who get married draw up a contract that they agree upon and sign it. If there is a falling out, then what needs to be done will be outlined in that said contract.”

      You might want to look into moving to Alabama. They have a bill in the works proposing to do just that as a reaction to the expected forthcoming national legalization of gay marriage via the supreme court.

  3. Tim says:

    Don’t kill the messenger – but the white knights are going to make sure women get paid to have kids and screw whomever they wish. The higher paid positions will eventually have quotas for women, single women will get taxpayer funded child care free of charge, months long maternity leave will be paid for by both male employees and taxpayers and marriage will become defacto after X number of month of cohabitation – giving even girlfriends the rights to asset division and alimony. Men are already paying for women’s birth control and maternity care through the ACA. One need only look to Sweden and Canada to see the future of the USA.

    You’re going to love this. A rare, uncensored look into Sweden:


    I may be a MGHOW but I’m not delusional. One way or the other, men’s wealth will be transferred to women. If it can’t be manipulated out of you, then it will be transferred via force of anti-male laws and policies. That’s how redistribution of wealth works. No matter how nightmarish women make the world for men – the government will not let men opt out en masse.

    Every single year, in the US alone, hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of men find themselves in court regretting the day they met their wives and find themselves cursing the day they signed the most anti-male contract ever created. At the same time, their wealth, through asset division, alimony and child support is transferred to their now deeply hated X wives. The wife goes on about her life screwing multiple men on her X husbands dime while the X husband contemplates suicide.

    If any other scam destroyed any other group of people in such large numbers, that scam would be made illegal. Why is the marriage scam allowed to continue against men? Because there are big profits in destroying men’s lives. Ever wonder why it’s primarily men that fight and die for the rights primarily women enjoy in the US? Culling hundreds of thousands of men’s lives annually makes no difference. Only the baby makers matter. Women will rule until artificial methods of birth become practical.

    Men’s only option is to give women as close to zero power in their lives as possible. Getting married is giving all of your power to a woman. Not being able to prove consent after sex is giving all of your power to a woman. Not being able to prove the bruise she shows the cops wasn’t put there by you after she files a false DV charge is giving all of your power to a woman. The list goes on and on and on.

    Much of the 2016 elections will be about hypergynocentrism (feminism) and forced wealth/power transfer from men to women. The white knights are going to increasingly through the majority of men under the bus in ever more man destroying ways. They’ve been doing it for the past 50 years with no-fault divorce, Title IX, women only scholarships, Yes Means Yes, the VAWA, higher funding for women’s programs via state and federal taxes, Affirmative Action, etc, etc, etc. You think it’s bad for men now? Arresting men under misdemeanor charges for having their legs too far apart on public transit – even when the train or bus is half empty – is just the tip of the iceberg. You ain’t seen noth’n yet.

    It’s a man hating, gynocentric world.

    1. Jimmy says:

      I agree, mgtow are pretty delusional (especially the those from USA) they believe that they can do something or affect things when in fact they can do very little. This is mainly became so many mgtow live in the USA and have never left that country, social polices in the USA are just 10-15 years behind Europe. Americans think that the social polices were kept in place by “libertarian ideals” and “the constitution” when really it was more due to traditionalism/gynocentrism and Christianity.

      This is why despite being “libertarian minded” USA still outlaws prostitution, and has very tough drug laws and even pornography at one point.

      I think what we are seeing is the tip of the iceberg, in the next 10 years I suspect we will see:-

      Cohabitation laws
      reversal/withdrawal of consent laws, so rape can be if you “led her long” in relationship etc..
      Moves to Ban pornography/ sexual services
      IVF/Sperm donor/designer 1 person babies becoming common and subsidized.
      Fully government subsisted child care for single women.
      Larger tax breaks/rebates for married couples/women (childcare/health/food/school) meaning very high effective tax rates for single men by proxy but not explicit gender discrimination which would be illegal.
      -Being a single man will become very expensive

      All of this stuff has been mentioned/touted in the press in one form or another.

      Another thing mgtow’s don’t get is that the affect of mgtow is so small it’s irrelevant. For every 1 mgtow there are 9 white knights.

      Women are the ones who do the choosing and rejecting not men, mgtow try and attribute false power to themselves when they say things like the “wall” and “society in decline” Unless she’s really ugly every chic that hits the “the wall” still has at least 5 guys who can marry her, that isn’t changing anytime soon.

      1. Darth Sin says:

        White Knight Alert.

        1. braininavat says:

          I don’t think “Jimmy” is a White Knight, but rather he is telling us hard truths about the very limited reach of MGTOW. Things are going to get worse before they get better, and Jimmy is saying how exactly things will get worse. I think he is right.

          Laws attempting to control men, never explicitly framed as being anti-male, are likely to increase, perhaps significantly. On the contrary, anti-male legislation will always be presented by politicians to the public as being about “equality” — dictionary definition feminism. Expect to see more of it.

          There are many MGTOW who want to believe that they can be successful while disconnected from “the system,” but they will find that the government, which has guns and prisons, can control them even when they think they can’t be controlled by anyone. Be prepared to be a ghost, and to more or less disappear from society (including accepting something like poverty) if you want to retain (or re-gain) your autonomy.

          1. Jimmy says:

            Thanks I’m glad you understood my point. I used to describe myself as mgtow but in the last 2 years “mgtow” has taken on a whole new meaning and has become quite cult like, any dissent from a certain narrow viewpoint and you get called names.

            The reason i’m being harsh is because I can actively see changes on the horizon.

            Here is an article about about rape by fraud’ in New Jersey.


            This basically means that “consensual sex” can be deemed non -consensual; if a woman wants to remove it a later date.

            If someone 5 years ago had said you need to seek “continued consent” during sex, I would have laughed in their face, what we have that now.

            The chief prosecutor here in the UK has now suggested that if a woman has had any alcohol then she can’t give consent.

            When you look at laws, the directions of things is moving towards getting worse – not better but you have these mgtow guys making out that they are making a difference.

            Women have 10x more dating options now with facebook, tinder, etc. They have thousands of thirsty white knights. Hypergamy is getting worse and will get worse. Men are responding to hypergamy it by working out going to the gym etc. Even ugly women online can find a decent dude.

            Take a look here:-


            The whole “wall” narrative is delusional, we don’t live in the 80s and women have thousands of potential suitors.

            “Be prepared to be a ghost, and to more or less disappear from society (including accepting something like poverty) if you want to retain (or re-gain) your autonomy.”

            This is my point the governments which will be even more feminist than the current ones will seek to clamp down on “mgtow” behavior. Growing mgtow would cause a reaction from the powers that be. I think it will be less attractive to be a mgtow in the future when the internet is more censored and being mgtow will cost more than being in a relationship.

          2. Cary Harris says:

            Jimmy, why are you here? You need to do a little more research into MGTOW before posting erroneous assumptions. I highly doubt your claim to have been MGTOW for 2 years.

          3. Darth Sin says:

            Precisely. Jimmy seems to be advocating for relationshits.

          4. Shire Livingston says:

            hence, the white knightestry

          5. Ryan says:

            Being aware of what is on the horizon and predicting mens’ future does not necessarily equate to desiring or endorsing that future. Nothing Jimmy wrote suggests he is a white knight or endorses embracing gynocentrism. He is merely pointing out some cold, hard truths.

            My best advice to MGTOW would be save every last penny you can, keep a lot of extra cash somewhere safe where the hand of gynocentrist government cannot find it, and enjoy the ride while it lasts, because all men will be fucked in 50 years’ time, especially the ones who actively and openly defy the powers-that-be.

  4. I think you bring up an excellent point about male scarcity and traditionalism.

    In fact “male” feminist’s like Roosh V and Aaron Clarey are too stupid to understand basic math/supply and demand…


  5. joe says:

    I have been alone beating the drum for platonic co-parenting as current solution for mgtow reproduction. The child gets to have both parents and the parents gets to avoid the marriage trap. Some states base child support on the percentage of time with each parent. So more equal time means less child support from either party. Whatever child support one ends up paying can be viewed as just another tax. This is where MRAs can help mgtow, by pushing for more states to adopt mandatory joint custody. Surprisingly, Sweden has the best model that would help mgtow men reproduce via co-parenting.

  6. aristein88 says:

    As far as I am concerned, women made it an “us vs them” situation. So, I don’t really concern myself with what is good for women. I am only concerned with what is good for men. And, if men ever take control of society away from women again, then they would be smart to only offer women what they can actually EARN….and ignore all their demands and professional victim tactics.

    Women’s approval is simply not needed to advance society and the human race. Men should not care about what women “feel” they are entitled to. They should care about what is good for men. And, any dealing with women should be in contract form, freely negotiated, and with BOTH sides of the contract enforced. The government shouldn’t be allowed to be involved at all, except in enforcing a freely negotiated contract.

  7. I’ve gone into what I believe in a workable alternative system in my video “Let’s Talk About Solutions” from a while back.

    I think that technology such as artificial wombs/cloning/sex robots will do the trick, but absent that, the best alternative is to reinstitute a patriarchal system, but instead of making women property (and thus put all the responsibility on the man as the owner of said property), we as men must FORCE women to assume responsibility (for the first time in recorded history).

    Responsibility breed maturity. Women act like children because society allows them to avoid responsibility at every turn. The danger is that after the collapse, and the inevitable return to patriarchy, the natural instinct will be to collect as many rape-slaves as possible, and treat them like property, which will eventually feed back into the traditionalism cycle.

    We as men must use that once in a millennium chance to force women to be responsible.

    1. Caploxion says:

      I love your work more than I have any woman — fascinating and likely accurate musings.

      1. Awkward, but thank you.

    2. joe says:

      Artificial wombs and cloning won’t help any mgtow who want to reproduce today or in the near future. Surrogacy denies the child contact with its mother. Yes gays do it, but that doesn’t make it right/ideal. With the right laws, platonic co-parenting MIGHT work for mgtows today. Women aren’t evil, thus needing to be avoided, they are just human.

      1. joe says:

        Artificial wombs and cloning won’t help any mgtow who want to reproduce today or in the near future. Surrogacy denies the child contact with its mother. Yes gays do it, but that doesn’t make it right/ideal. With the right laws, platonic co-parenting MIGHT work for mgtows today. Women aren’t evil, thus needing to be avoided. They are just human, thus can be reasoned with (somewhat).

        1. Cary Harris says:

          okay joe, I want to do a white knight alert on you. Woman can be reasoned with? Have you seen the protesters at the Warren Farrell lecture, or the Janice Fiamenco lecture? Have you read the posts on salon, jezebel, futrelles shit, killallmen, huffpo and on and on?

          And by the way, MGTOW do not want to reproduce. that is the whole point. and many like minded men are finding common ground in this international movement. Now who cares if guys jump on board en masse? We know affluent and privileged western broads arent breeding, and they make crap mothers even when they do. So declining birth rates and fewer men willing to destroy their lives in a marriage – 70% of men in the 20-34 year age group not getting shafted by that deal. That seems to speak to your women aren’t evil proposition.

          1. big_red01027 says:

            He must have missed out on JtO’s recent “NAWALT Is Nonsense” video.

    3. Jive Turkey says:

      I agree! Forcing women to be responsible. There’s an unprecedented concept. Hey TFM, love your stuff. I’m a fan myself. Maybe not as much as Caplaxion though. Har har!

    4. Broken Deity says:

      That’s not likely to happen. When or if a collapse happens the powers that be will blame whoever is most convenient for them and most people (including men) will eat it up.

      You have more faith in the logic of men than you should. White knights outnumber us for a reason and not all of them come from the lower dregs of society that you would like to let die.

  8. Who cares who fucks who and for how long? If a child is born then implement equal custody and equal parental benefits (including leave and daycare). Let people stay together or split, but seperate the relationship from the parental status and strip women of the Special motherhood status. They are just another parent, not the better one. Let them work and pay their share. And give dads time with kids and strong parental rights.
    Problem solved, welcome to the 21st century.

  9. Chukhed says:

    I’m MGTOW, and not because i expect anything to change from doing so. I’m protecting myself from a system designed to take advantage of me. I catch heat for it everytime i must visit my sisters, with every shaming tactic thrown at me, and i just dont care. They like to criticize me for the choice i have made to ‘opt-out’ of relationshits, while i silently stand aside and laugh to myself with every collision course they put themselves on.

    When i opted out, i felt alone in the world. I didnt even know MGTOW exsisted. Now i know that i’m not as crazy as some females would like to believe, and i am not alone. If this makes me a ‘ghost’ or not popular, or even if MGTOW does somehow get taken away, i will not change. I made this change for ME, just like many others i suspect, and having a club, group, forum or whatever, where i can vent and have conversations with like-minded individuals is helpful and uplifting, but in reality.. not a necessity {No offense guys!} because i will still be staying single BY CHOICE. And even if that choice did lead someday to me and all the other single men to pay more in taxes, it still would be worth it.

    I think it’s the fact that some of us make a different choice that ticks off these whiteknights. It irritates them that they did not have the mental capacity to think for themselves, and we did. It’s simple envy.

    1. Hedon says:

      This post symbolizes a (real) MGTOW. I mean…everything you said is what it is all about. Why do these guys even care how or who re-populate the world? I don’t get it.

  10. gary says:

    pretty good thread,

    Tend to think theres more at play in society than mgtow, but it is all flowing pretty much the same direction…

    the universe invariably insists on a balance, and traditional was just a primitive attempt…

    do I think a real balance between men and women is possible.

    now ask me if I think its likely any time soon, with all the vested interests in the current conflicts…

    the problem as I see it is we are in the wrong moment, i.e. before the obvious solution that we probably aren’t seeing arrives on line…

    if the manginas think we are leaving them all the pussy, they are correct, but we are also leaving them all the problems that come with it! I do not think all will go well for them…

    basically the women have to have a sex partner to get a victim.

    on increasing taxes; already happening, taxes going up, wages going down, for now women in offices and watching soaps benefit, later, as their wages go down further, they will find themselves working for little…

    guys who ghost are exploring the future…

    it used to be called; “living by your wits”, a term coined in the Reggae era.

    and I have been doing it for twenty years after realizing the only thing preventing me from blowing the system and ex out of my life was my own insecurities and hesitation….

    I ended up leaving the US in a 29 ft sailboat, having never sailed before.

    4000 Nm and seven storms later, I and Dog arrived in paradise. and instantly got into trouble with corrupt officials who didn’t believe I could do the trip non stop in such a small boat…

    Had police with machine guns looking for me in the jungle, had a lot of my stuff stolen etc. but ended up getting said corrupt officials fired, then bought a 70 acre farm for $8600, and lived alone in nature for 18 years…

    why am I telling this?

    so some other guys might see that they can be free too…

    hardest part is just making the decision, and letting go of what others think,
    letting go of the future and take life moment by moment….

    takes guts!

    thats all you need besides trainable wits and some basic skills….

    I did that at 39, and Im 59 now,
    and can walk the streets of central america as comfortable as your home town. I speak fluent Spanish now, and have common people who respect me. in two countries where brown is the nomal people color,
    and white or black are just interesting variations…

    the black brothers from the states would just be another guy here, get on the bus and only your friends notice…

    my other community is mgtow…

    “a journey of a thousand li, begins with a single step.”

    first you have to figure out where to place that foot, then you have to do it.

    do it guys! make freedom your life, and happiness your dream….

    and by the way, my ex wife respects me now…. proved I was more man than she appreciated.

    and adventure gets addictive…


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