PUA's, what in the actual f*ck?

PUA’s, what in the actual f*ck?
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Comments (40)
  1. Great post….

    but creeper Roosh would likely like prison…

    notice how these manuresphere types are all friends with Jack Donovan…

    Prison rape-that’s just Last Minute Resistance to these creepers…

    PUA’s don’t see other men as human, merely competitors…

    anyways, it’s pretty obvious AVfM isn’t for men’s rights when they interview a fucktard like Roosh…

    — you guys might find this entertaining…

  2. TheRedBaron says:

    Thanks Bar Bar!

    One thing I noticed about The Rational Male blog and PUAs in general is that they ignore the part about how women get off on hardcore violence. The only reason stopping women in the US from dating (hooking up) with ghetto thugs (regardless of race) is the social shaming from peers.

    The Rational Male every now and then starts spinning fairy tales about how men and women complement each other and is fairly sanitised on taboo topics like rape fantasies and violence although Rollo is much much better than the others. For an author that makes claims about analysing things from an amoral perspective he is also reticent on how nature intended polygamy and does not analyse in enough detail how women would rather share what they perceive to be the ‘top’ guys than be monogomously paired with other males. [Paraphrasing Roissy’s quote]. The implication is that if you are muscular enough, dominant enough and are able to project social status – you have a shot at a fulfilling LTR with a woman.

    Whereas MGTOWs don’t care about pretentious ‘civility’ – the war on men has put us way past this point so we just say what we clearly see about base female nature without fear of any repercussions from the PC crowd.

  3. Darth Sin says:

    PUAs are white knighting pussy begging manginas who got exposed to Red Pill but never grew out of being a pussy beggar or deluded themselves into thinking that they are no longer pussy beggars.

    PUAs may not be white knights, they may not be manginas but they are certainly pussy beggars. Actually, strike that. PUAs are primitive pussy vultures for it is only vultures that crowd around and feast on the dying or the dead.

    To all the PUAs out there :- Grow up, or rather, grow out the primitive notions that pussy is something divine or worth keeping score over.

    The desire for pussy is no different than the desire to defecate or to urinate. You just accept them as biological desires you have to deal with as efficiently as possible, not deify it.

  4. George C says:

    You will never convince a guy like Roosh. They know they are in slavery. They admit it. You cannot shame them – they are un-shameable.

    Roosh clearly says a man’s worth is defined by a woman. He doesn’t hint. He doesn’t beat around the bush. He says it outright.

    It comes down to an instinct for freedom. Some people have it. Some people don’t.

    Esther Vilar calls it “pleasure in unfreedom”. For most men, this is the norm. You cannot change that. There is a REASON in every age only a tiny few were willing to fight for freedom. Most people do not care bout it. They enjoy slavery.

    Roosh did a review of Vilar and concluded that he is a slave to pussy but it’s OK because he gets pleasure. A man with this psychology is simply incapable of independence. Roosh is not unique – he is most men. Why does he sell so many books? Roosh is simply better at articulating the psychology of the average man.

    You can never shame a PUA because they do not think it shameful to be slaves to women. They do not think it shameful that she sits back and judges his “performance” (game). They do not dare dispute her judgement – they accept it. If she doesn’t accept him, the PUA accepts her judgement on his worth as valid. Roosh says this outright.

    Esther Vilar says that men view women as somehow divine and as goddesses. Men literally worship women and are in awe of them. I thought this was rhetorical excess because I could find no trace of this attitude in myself. I am utterly deficient in this attitude. But I now think Vilar is correct – most men see women as goddesses.

    It is the source of female power throughout the ages. Men have always viewed women this way – how is it going to change? For this reason I believe the MRM is doomed. Most men will never be on board.

    How can you make someone free who has no wish to be free? You can’t.

    1. Darth Sin says:

      George C :- Pleasure in unfreedom. Yep, that is exactly what they are.

      Their pleasure in unfreedom turns them into pussy begging vultures.

      This ultimately fuels decline of male relations because the thing that improves relations among male is healthy competition over things that matter, not competing over pussy. That is what unenlightened animals do.

      PUAs, for all their understanding of the Red Pill, are part of the reason why feminism, traditionalism, gynocentrism exist and are maintained.

      Because to take the red pill to its deepest rabbit hole and emerge out of it is to be, is to want to be a free man, not to be a man who takes pleasure in unfreedom.

      The difference between a MGTOW and a PUA is this. Both of them looked into the abyss that is the real nature of humans of both sexes, but when that abyss looked back, the PUA blinked, slipped and fell.

      1. George C says:

        I agree with what you that is the difference between a PUA and an MGTOW. I think it’s a basic difference in character. Some people crave freedom, others don’t. No amount of “realization” changes that. You can’t argue yourself into a different character. You are strong, or you are weak. Most men are weak – I don’t say this with scorn. Its just a truth.

        Roosh, Heartiste, and the rest do not hide what they are doing. They freely admit their self-worth is correctly judged by women, who they see as above them.

        PUA’s aren’t upset that men are slaves to women, and always have been (in the sense that Vilar describes in her wonderful book). They are merely upset that their slavery doesn’t get women as easily as it used to, and it doesn’t get them as nice treatment as it used to. Their slavery has been devalued, that’s all.

        Its like a slave who finds his master cutting his rations and treating him worse merely wishing to return to the way things were without altering the fundamental fact of his slavery.

        A return to “traditional” values between the sexes would mean men are slaves to women but get better treatment (“appreciation”, “gratitude” while still being manipulated and making all the sacrifices) and get women more easily through their slavery.

        This is probably the best we can ever hope for for most men. A society where most men did not sacrifice for women and were not manipulated by them has never existed and that’s for a reason.

        There will always be a few independent men but they will never be the norm.

        As Vilar shows, its inevitable. The weaker party in a mentor/protege relationship is able to manipulate and demand and receive sacrifice.

    2. MarkM says:

      Just lol – You think Roosh and the manofags believe in PUA?

      Roosh and the Manohuckster$ aren’t dumb enough to believe in PUA. They just sell these stupid books to armies of ideological nerds while they take the money and travel the world, paying for the occasional hooker when they want to have sex.

    3. Anonymous says:

      well stated man….

  5. Tasos Obscure says:

    As if having twice as much funding in breast cancer rather than prostate cancer is not quite enough. These guys are good kids, but that’s all they are, kids. Instead of donating to some other type of cancer foundation they preferred to take the personal enjoyment by donating face to face to a single mother of all things. Of course no one will dare say anything criticizing them in-between these feel-good comments. Also note that hey raised quite a few more thousands than they donated, which is suspicious all by itself.

  6. Roger Anahiem says:

    “I highly suspect that their lack of drive or motivation could be related to depression or other hormonal problems.” -Roosh V

    Good Lord, what a projection! Anyone who has seen a video of Roosh knows he’s a walking case of depression. This is coming from someone who had experienced severe depression in the past himself. The average waiter at Applebee’s has more charisma than this guy. However much pussy he sticks his dick in, however often, he really doesn’t make a very good case for it being something worth having. Just look up any video of Roosh on YouTube. If he gets as much as he says he does than sex with women must have an effect similar to heroine when it comes to his physiology.

  7. Pellaeon says:

    I certainly wont argue that the PUA community is peppered with toxic individuals, nor will I argue that Roosh seems a rather unbalanced individual. With that being said, the fact remains that there is nowhere else that gives actionable advice that actually works for a guy who struggles to attract women.

    It is definitely a bit of a minefield to navigate, but Ive found it worth it. When I lost my virginity, it was like this swarm of termites that had been eating away at my soulf was finally exterminated. Even before getting my first kiss, learning about female psychology and how female attraction worked (at least the little that we understood back then – I didnt learn about the “alpha fucks beta bucks” dynamic until discovering rollo), saved me from the yearly depressions that would last weeks to months that Id experienced since I was twelve.

    It’s far from idea, but it does provide a valuable service for those who DO want to get laid. Respect for those of you who are able to lead perfectly happy, regret free lives without at least trying to get laid. I am not one of those people.

    1. t says:


      PUA/game is a scam. Peddle you debunked scam elsewhere.

    2. Overriding the Reptilian Brain says:

      @Pellaeon – There was a post on 1 of the forums on how AV (Actual Value) has diverged from SMV (Sexual Market Value) – both of which are very different from MMV (Marriage Market Value) which is also diverging.

      I hope I don’t get downvoted for this – but personally I use aspects of game that contribute to Actual Value (increasingly by the day these aspects keep diminishing as women continue to regress to their chimpanzee brain status).

      Why learn game personally you may wonder? Because knowledge is power – practicing is a whole different story. Of course I put Game at a very low priority in my life and certainly do not judge others in a negative light if they don’t study it.

      I hope we can discuss about ‘game’ or ways to get laid from a MGTOW (non-celibate perspective) – like what would a MGTOW do to approach relationships in a stoic manner with the few cultured women who are atleast dating material..these women come in my life every 2 years and due to the self-imposed scarcity mentality fuck with my brain during weak moments which ofcourse don’t define me but irk me. I wish I could get rid of these moments completelely.

      1. Pellaeon says:

        There was a post on 1 of the forums on how AV (Actual Value) has diverged from SMV (Sexual Market Value) – both of which are very different from MMV (Marriage Market Value) which is also diverging.

        I think I stumbled onto a similar post recently while googling around. Yes this is one thing that I think the PUA community definitely seems to get consistently wrong. There is an obsession with SMV, and they seem to judge every man based purely on his ability to get sex. When I first got involved, I internalized a lot of this mentality, and got really down on myself. Then I started noticing how guys whose game actually seemed worse than mine, but they were still getting laid (I was fat and they were not). As time went on I started questioning the logic more and more and came to the same conclusion about actual value.

        If I was so low value, why did my wing constantly tell me how much he preferred hanging out with me versus the other guys in our lair who were getting laid like crazy, but didn’t really seem to care much about the other guys? If I was so low value, then why did I always seem to be able to help get the guys I winged into a positive state, while few could do the same despite getting laid when I wasn’t?

        these women come in my life every 2 years and due to the self-imposed scarcity mentality fuck with my brain during weak moments which ofcourse don’t define me but irk me. I wish I could get rid of these moments completelely.

        Yeah overcoming the scarcity mentality is one of the things I struggle with the most. I have found that embracing rejection, and the pain accompanying it helps. Before, whenever I got rejected, I would try to immediately block out the pain and go distract myself with it. Lately, I’ve taken to remaining present with it, and mentally associating the pain with the actions I took that led me to the rejection. I’ve found that doing so helps reduce my neediness, and makes me care less about a woman’s perspective.

        I like to think of it as similar to “iron fist” training in Kung Fu – by exposing myself to repeated rejection and pain, I numb myself more and more to its effects. By continually experiencing just how callously a woman will tread on my feelings, I begin to care less and less about how any given woman perceives my actions. It’s one thing to logically know that a woman will always act in her own selfish interest…but it’s another thing to feel it instinctually.

        It’s certainly not solved it though – it’s something that I still require a lot of work on. It’s also not the most pleasant way to go about releasing your attachment…but it’s really been the only one that’s worked for me.

        1. Overriding the Reptilian Brain says:

          Not sure if you read Manipulated Man by Esther Vilar but the moment you see the ‘well trained intlligent chimpanzee’ comparison rejection phobia goes away for me.

          Also these ‘quality women’ that trouble me may use prefrontal cortex for most things in life but for mate selection they are still reliant on their hindbrain, it is a classic e.g. of domain independence. Given men love idealistically it took me a lot of time to deconstruct what was happening in my head..the brain desperately latches onto the smallest thing about these women to pedastalize and rates women on a curve so to speak.

          These women 50-75 years ago would be considered strumpets for sleeping around and it would have been a disgrace to have been even seen with them in public. I love the MGTOW community – a lot of these ideas are common sense but self-reinforcement helps a lot on a day to day basis.

        2. MarkM says:

          “I like to think of it as similar to “iron fist” training in Kung Fu – by exposing myself to repeated rejection and pain, I numb myself more and more to its effects.”

          YOU JUST SAID IT

          Paying money for products which advise (as all game products do) to approach women all the time is just dumb as fuck.

          The equivalent is “I will tell you how to get rich if you buy my book for $150. ”

          You but the book, Open the book and the only advice is “Work harder than before”

          That is what game/pua is. Just telling men to approach more and get rejected more.

          “Game/PUA” is a numbers game. i.e. it DOES NOT PRODUCE RESULTS ABOVE PLACEBO.

          GAME/PUA = SCAM

      2. MarkM says:

        Care to explain the specific “aspects of game” you use?

        Considering that “game” in pua circles means anything in the universe that can increase your chance of getting laid AND THIS SPECIFICALLY INCLUDES COMMON sense.

        There is an old joke about this:-

        Paid for PUA advice PUA Marketing Lingo

        Leave the house “Social Circle Game”
        Don’t look like a bum ” Image Transformation”
        Talk to a woman(s) “Be social/Interactive”
        Try to be funny and charming “Have good game” lol
        Go to clubs/bars “Club/night game”
        Don’t sit in your rooms and
        mope around “Lifestyle Game”
        Take Care of your body “Gym/Workout game”

        This is the sum total of what PUA/Game Bullshit is. Notice this would work for women trying to get men or even trying to get more friends.

        Game is NOT DISTINCT from common sense. Game/PUA is scammy bollocks.

        1. Pellaeon says:

          There is a lot to respond here – both to this comment, and the others you have posted, so please be patient with me as I start with just a small portion.

          “Game is NOT DISTINCT from common sense.”

          I will certainly cede that point – much of what is taught as part of game is “common sense” stuff that many men have figured out on their own. Personally, I think some of the best self-improvement literature takes common sense and repackages it in a more formalized language.

          For instance, Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University – there is almost nothing in that program that doesn’t boil down to just plain common sense. Yet, having all those bits of common sense packaged together and presented formally really helped put into perspective the right approach for me to take to tackle my finances. I’m 29 years old and I paid off all of my college loans last June. I am literally debt free right now, and I owe a large part of that to having taken FPU. Contrast that with my roommate, who spent an entire year living at an apartment that was outside his means.

          It’s common sense that one should not live in an apartment where you have to continually dip into your savings in order to pay rent. He drained his reserves, and, when we started living together, did not have anything in savings and was essentially living paycheck to paycheck. My roommate is not stupid, his focus was just elsewhere. We take in a lot of “common sense” information in our life, and it can be useful to have a program or book consolidate much of that common sense that centers around a particular subject and re-tell it to us to give clarity and focus on that particular topic.

          Now certainly, many guys get along just fine without it. But take note that I did not say “game is the only place for the average guy to get help with women.” I said that it the only place for a guy who struggles with women. I DID NOT pick up this common sense on my own. I was very naive, and I bought very hard into the “egalitarian” and “equalist” mindset. I took women at face value when they said they didn’t like jerks and assholes, and I assumed that the only reason I didn’t attract any women was simply because I was fat, and that I must just be physically unattractive.

          Now to an extent, this is actually true, but not the complete story. I thought attraction from women completely boiled down to looks, just like it did for guys. But I’ve gotten some dates with women who are, from all common sense perspectives, completely out of my league. My experience shows me that you can overcome a lack of good looks (eg being fat) with enough game, or as you put it above “trying to be funny and charming.”

          In college, just prior to learning about game, I had a woman tell me straight to my face “You know nothing about women. You will never date, and you’ll be lucky if you find some woman willing to settle and marry her.” I then had a friend introduce me to the PUA community, and after nine months of studying it and working on approaches I finally got my first kiss. I am 95% certain that if I had never discovered game, I would not only still be a virgin, but also never have kissed a woman.

          Now this comment is getting on the long side, and I need to start heading in to work, so I’m gonna cut if off here and resume later.

    3. George C says:

      Prostitutes provide a value for those who want to get laid. Game provides a value for those who need the approval of women to feel a sense of self-worth.

      Game tells you to assume the attitude of protector/provider towards women – convince them you can take care of them and provide for them. Ironically, women screening men for this role want you for a relationship not a one night stand. Game behavior is completely useless for one night stands – in fact, its counterproductive. If you’re offering yourself as a provider/protector, she might not act on her attraction to you but try and land you in a relationship instead. One night stands are solely about looks (good genes). The protector/provider guy typically gets cuckolded (unless he ALSO has good genes).

      As a rule, if a woman is playing “games” – hot/cold, feigning disinterest, shit test, anything you need “game” to overcome – she is screening you for a provider role and isn’t interested in you primarily in a sexual way. You are a function in her life, that’s all. The “games” are primarily intended to assess your commitment to her – if you’re willing to put up with her bullshit, you must REALLY like her. That makes you much more easy to manipulate.

      From a female perspective, there is no way to “fail” a shit test. If you stick around to take her bullshit, you “passed”. You showed her you like her so much you will stick around even if she is a complete bitch. If you act weak, she knows you can be easily manipulated through direct coercion. You “passed”. An in fact we see many guys in relationships where the woman treats him continuously like shit – that he “failed” the shit test by acting weak didn’t make her not get with him. If you confront her shitty behavior, you also pass. She now knows that she needs subtler methods to manipulate you and a frontal attack won’t work. But she is gratified that you stuck around – she knows a self-respecting man would simply walk away. He wouldn’t tolerate that bullshit for a second.

      Guys who “confront” shit tests merely show her they are so besotted with her that even her bad behavior won’t make him leave.

      There is no way to “fail” a shit test. Shit tests have a high risk of driving away self-respecting men, so she only tries it on men she doesn’t much care about anyways but who might be useful as a function in her life if he can demonstrate he is really committed to her.

      1. George C says:

        And that’s not even addressing the issue of how much of game is bad psychology and does a poor job of demonstrating you are a good provider/protector.

        Useless for one stands.

        Useful for demonstrating to her that you can be a good tool in her life while she satisfies herself sexually elsewhere.

        1. Pellaeon says:

          Useless for one stands.

          Useful for demonstrating to her that you can be a good tool in her life while she satisfies herself sexually elsewhere.

          From my own experiences, I am rather skeptical about this statement, but I am certainly open to being convinced otherwise.

          Could you elaborate on your personal experiences experimenting with this? Or if it is a friend who has done the experimentation, can you elaborate on their experiences?

      2. Don Juan says:

        You have it completely the wrong way round here. You have just described the opposite of what game teaches men to do, and what it’s mainly for. Game teaches men not to be providers, and instead to project sexuality, become good at turning girls on and close as quickly as possible. In fact in game the most central dichotomy is between the ‘beta’ provider who has no game and rarely gets laid, and the ‘alpha’ player who gets sex quickly and doesn’t provide for girls. As you said men who try and project themselves as providers rarely get quick sex, which is why a lot of game is geared towards eliciting sexual excitement in girls.
        Also having good game means you don’t accept crappy behavior from women, if a woman is a complete bitch then you don’t let her in your life. You seem to be confused about what game is, read some more posts and you will find that your views are the same as most mens in the community.

  8. Max Hydrogen says:

    Oh Barbarosaaaa, you’re so good at expounding original ideas: don’t waist your time playing status ping pong with these fucks; you’re much better than that.

    Basically: PUA’s are jocks, MGTOW are geeks and never the twain shall meet, moving on…

  9. Anon says:


    For most of history men have been willing to give up their lives for women, and only recently, when also saddled with the prospects of financial ruin, a de facto aristocracy of women, Star Chambers, and never being a part of their children’s live, now are they questioning that maybe the cost of women is too high?

    And you are moralizing to PUAs because they are willing to risk some prison time for a piece of ass?

    I see a distinct divorce from reality here.

    Truth is sex is perhaps the largest motivator in a any man’s life, and simply ignoring how huge of a role it plays even for those who have internalized how fraught it is in today’s culture is being intellectually dishonest. Nor is moralizing to a heroin junkie at how tragic his life is with heroin likely to produce anything more more than guilt and relapse. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand that my life may turn into a steaming pile of shit, but I still want my dick sucked.

    As appeals to will power have produced fuckall change with junkies, I don’t see how the same is going to magically deliver you from the temptations of women. Women have literally got you by the balls.

    Anywoo, I think rather than rationalizing away this desire, accepting that your biology is in conflict with with the environment is at least honest, and a good point of origin. You can mediate your biology, but you sure as hell aren’t going to change it.

    And even as I dislike PUAs, condemning them as untrustworthy when every single one of us is willing to sell out the other if the price is high enough is misguided. It sets an unrealistic expectation, and should garner more pity than contempt.

  10. blue-highlander says:

    “Their laziness is not admirable and not deserving of respect from men who do work hard at trying to game the system (or fight it) to squeeze whatever drops of happiness on this earth are left for men. I highly suspect that their lack of drive or motivation could be related to depression or other hormonal problems.”
    Massive projection here.He says that because he’s the lazy piece of shit that need validation for his useless, empty life.Anyone that thinks that this moron actualy banged something in poland is helpless.35 kg?Really?Im 5’7 and in my best days, i weigh around 70kg and i’m not a big guy.The only thing he could’ve banged at this weight(and i doubt he banged anything) is either a midget or a sheep(yes, the animal).In my opinion, that book about poland is a scam that he wrote to appeal to men who are desperate for sex.I saw his post about that.He brags about how mounting that chic was like “an elephant mounting a kitty”, trying to forget about his small dick.He is the depressed one who lack drive and motivation and needs to attack mgtow’s so he can feel better about himself.He could’ve said that he disagree with mgtow’s but no,he needs to bring people down to justify his mediocrity.Excuse the vulgarity, just giving my 2 cents…..

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  12. MarkM says:

    Amazing that men even some mgtow still haven’t got the memo about PUA. This whole industry was exposed back in 2011.

    The early industry adopters like Eben Pagen were part of Frank Kern’s affiliate syndicate scam. It’s just all horse carp “advice” to push sales of products and videos. The video’s are heavily edited or use models and paid actresses.

    If you think that ugly men (who are not famous or rich) are having sex with hot attractive women by asking them “what shampoo they prefer” you are an idiot.

    1. Pellaeon says:

      I went and read the blog post you linked to, and the verge article he posted there. Unfortunately, most of the other links on the post led to the now dismantled puahate site, so I was not able to read those.

      That was a very informative article, and I feel for the guy who lost all that money on the lie that he was going to get help putting up a profitable website. It reminds me of this elderly couple I sat next to on a flight who were trying to recruit me into jumping on their Acai berry pyramid scheme, and a family friend who tried to recruit me into some vacation sales pyramid scheme. None of the articles actually delved into disproving the viability of any pick up techniques or “game” insights…they just showed a link between some of the biggest names in the PUA community and a predatory marketing ring.

      Yes, I absolutely agree that the biggest names in Pick Up use predatory and exploitative marketing tactics. A two or three day workshop is not going to completely rehaul your dating habits, and is certainly not worth $2,000-$3,000. That doesn’t mean, however, that everything any PUA has ever sold is completely useless and wrong.

      All of the techniques and tips given can be independently verified. Now I could cite several examples from my own experience where I’ve seen them working, and I will if you would like to explore that direction of conversation, but for the sake of getting to the heart of the conversation, let’s assume that you are right: let’s assume that all of the advice presented has no greater truth or value to it than the placebo affect. After all, I only have personal anecdotes which are inherently biased. I have not done a full study, I have not completely tracked all of my approaches and the results thereof – I only have my personal intuition to go by. And someone could fairly point out that, given my above comment, my social intuition may not be the best around.

      The fact remains that a placebo treatment can actually be fairly powerful, and that it is more effective than no treatment at all (if you’d like, I could dig up some relevant passages about placebo from Dan Ariely’s Predictably Irrational, to help provide more than my own opinion as evidence on this subject). Now if your point in all this is to say “Don’t waste your money on this advice, you can get the same results by just going out there and hitting on a ton of women, so bypass the middle man and just go hit on a ton of women.” Then I can’t really argue you there, and I have no further quibble.

      I get the feeling, however, that this is not what you are saying. What it seems to me that you, and several other individuals who have similar outspoken objections to ‘game’, are saying is “PUA/Game doesn’t work any better than just going out there and hitting on a ton of women, so you shouldn’t even bother trying to hit on a ton of women.” This just boggles my mind. You can, and will, get better at hitting on women through practice. It may take an excruciatingly long time, depending on your natural talents, but you WILL get better…just like any other skill based activity (please tell me you don’t object to the idea that there are social skills, and certain individuals possess better mastery of them than others).

      NOW, you CAN fairly argue that you think the price is too high to pay. Fair enough…for those who ultimately really want to get laid though, they can do so by putting in the effort and work. This goes back to my earlier comment about the game community being the only place for guys who are struggling to get actionable help – it is the only community I know of that offers support for people who are willing to go out and hit on a ton of women. Granted, a large portion of the community will be unhelpful, but if you dig, there are some really good guys involved. Most of my closest friends I’ve met through the PUA community.

      Barbarossa, in one of his videos, talks about the importance of acknowledging your vulnerability as a man. Well the PUA community was the only place I knew I could consistently find guys who I could share my insecurities and vent about my frustrations with women and find myself supported instead of shunned. Sure, these days the MGTOW has grown, but how much time and support are you willing to give to a guy venting his frustrations about hitting on 40 women in a single week and getting shot down by all of them?

      I get the feeling that a large majority of the MGTOW community would say “Dude, stop being such a pussy beggar! You should live your life for you and stop slaving away trying to become the perfect disposable tool!” This is one thing that perplexes me – it seems perfectly acceptable to the MGTOW community to satisfy a woman’s sexual desires, so long as the man doesn’t have to work to do so.

      As a matter of analogy, it strikes me as similar to a group of anti-capitalists actively preaching against the greed and exploitation of a corporate society…but fully embracing consumerism so long as the individuals engaging in extravagant spending inherited their money. Any person of poor means wishing to elevate their status and wealth in society through hard work are derided as furthering the exploitative corporate interests. Certainly, this is ideologically consistent…but it strikes me as hurting, rather than helping, the man of modest means who wishes to enjoy the same comforts and luxuries as the upper class.

      As I said above, I highly respect anyone who truly can divorce himself fully from female approval. I, however, am not able to do so at this time. When Barbarossa is accused of just being a loser who can’t get laid, he can easily laugh and retort “No way buddy, I get laid all the time and I don’t even have to try.” Before I lost my virginity, I had no defense against this, and it deeply stung any time similar insults were flung at me. That’s not a problem for me anymore – I’ve gotten laid, and I can laugh them off almost as well as BarBar can…but I am only able to do so as a result of thousands of approaches. It was a very painful journey, but I found it well worth the pain and effort.

      1. bongstar420 says:

        It is just sex. Why waste energy on a bunch of unnecessary things?

        …especially with fake “relationships” as a payment for sex?

        Then there is all the stuff he has to do that she never will

  13. Max Hydrogen says:

    I already told you to fuck off spammy!

  14. Rickard says:

    Roosh calls us lazy but who are the real lazy men? That’s right, the PUAs. Instead of using their time to improve their mind and body they waste it on picking up women. They spend the money they earned on some woman they don’t even know. I rather do some modding, piano playing, composition, studying engineering subjects or exercise than going out and waste time in some nightclubs for a few second orgasm and then wake up the next day tired. Can you build something tangible with sex? No, it does lead to anything productive (except children, which is ofc not the purpose of sex in most cases nowadays). You can however build many tangible things with skills such as music composition, video game development, math, physics, engineering.

    1. Pellaeon says:

      I’ve never liked Roosh. He does occasionally have some useful advice, but it is buried beneath an unnecessarily hyperbolic and combative persona. He contradicts himself a lot too.

      I definitely agree that our society over-emphasizes the importance of sex, and needlessly demonizes many intellectual activities that can ultimately be beneficial to wider society as a whole if the individuals continue to engage in them.

    2. bongstar420 says:

      The PUA is a tool. Their targets think the same thing- us dude not willing to jump through hoops to get laid are “LAZY”

      It is an attack on our “masculinity”

      I say, I am too “masculine” to give 1/10th of 1 fuck.

      Call me when my identity is not defined by a bunch of people I don’t approve of and will never meet.

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  16. Sunny says:

    You’re right. I believe ROOSH was being completely serious about going to prison for pussy. Just like everything he else he says is serious (10k girls, never on Tuesday, etc.). You can take anything and turn it negative. Especially PUAs, because 1/2 of their repertoire is witty/funny/sarcasm.

    1. bongstar420 says:

      Well, the dumbass should have called it a night at the first no and told her they can talk again when she is ready to have sex

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